Crowded trailheads. Packed campgrounds. Busy beaches, rivers and lakes.
Oregon outdoor recreation areas saw a huge flood of visitors in 2020, many of whom were new to outdoor recreation. And while most people have been respectful and responsible in nature, the sheer size of the crowds has inevitably led to a rise in trash, trespassing, and search and rescue missions.
This week on the Peak Northwest podcast, we discuss the rise of rookie hikers — and how the COVID-19 pandemic pushed a new wave of people outside, for better or worse.
Some highlights:
- We discuss the crowds on trails, beaches, rivers and other outdoor areas throughout the state — and why crowds were out in full force amid the pandemic.
- We run down what last year was like at Crater Lake National Park, which saw a record number of visitors this past July and August.
- We share our thoughts about all Oregonians’ access to public lands — including spots referenced in our travel and outdoors coverage.
- Jamie argues that it’s not hard to escape the crowds. If you want to go to a busy outdoor destination, for example, head out on a weekday — or later in the day when there are more hours of daylight.
- He advocates for inviting new hikers into nature — and for seasoned hikers to find new spots to explore.
- Jamie shares the story of how one Portland man got into camping in 2020.
- We offer some advice for people who don’t have a lot of outdoor recreation experience. (Don’t miss our previous episodes on Camping 101, Backpacking 101 and relieving yourself responsibly while in nature.)
- Jamie gives a shout-out to OregonHikers.org, which is a great resource for planning trips.
Read Jamie’s report about the uptick of visitors to Oregon outdoor recreation areas.
Check out his story about what to do when you’re hiking and nature calls but restrooms aren’t available.
Listen to our previous episodes about how to plan your first camping or backpacking trips.
Watch the latest episode of the Peak Northwest video series, in which we toured a historic rail line that could one day become the 86-mile Salmonberry Trail.
Subscribe to Peak Northwest on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify or anywhere you listen to podcasts.
Follow Peak Northwest on Instagram at @PeakNorthwest.
Episode transcript
This is a rush transcript produced primarily through voice-to-text software. It may contain inaccuracies and may be updated or revised. Time codes are approximate.
Jamie Hale: [00:00:00] Hello, hello! Welcome back to Peak Northwest, an outdoors and travel podcast by The Oregonian and OregonLive dedicated to the adventure and exploration of our beautiful Pacific Northwest. I’m Jamie Hale.
Jim Ryan: [00:00:16] And I’m Jim Ryan, and together, we take you to some of the most beautiful and interesting destinations in our region discussing where to go, what to do and places to see.
And Jamie, we made it, my man. Congratulations. Are you ready to leave 2020 in the dust yet?
Jamie Hale: [00:00:37] Yeah, yeah, I have- I’ve been ready for that, I think. Yeah, let’s go ahead and leave it behind. I’m excited for 2021, you know, because we kind of know what we’re getting ourselves into this time.
Jim Ryan: [00:00:48] We think we do.
Jamie Hale: [00:00:49] And we think- no, fingers crossed -- and it’s like a time to sort of, you know, emerge from the cave, so to speak and , you know , see how things have changed in this brave new world of ours.
Jim Ryan: [00:01:03] Yeah, I’m also feeling hopeful, you know, perhaps that cautious optimism. You know, obviously we’re still in pretty dire shape with the pandemic at the moment, but I think we’re allowed to carry a little bit of cautious optimism into the new year. Maybe that’s a little bit of what the new year’s all about, at least this go around.
And I’m hopeful that 2021 is going to maybe start on a little bit better of a trajectory than say the early part of 2020. But before we move on to all of that, you know, 2021 for good, if you will, I think we should pause for a bit.
One of the trends we’ve all thought about, but maybe haven’t been able to quantify from the past several months and you know, whether it was more traffic on the trail, busy parking, lots trouble getting permits or reservations for certain spots, 2020 was an extremely busy year for Oregon outdoor recreation. And Jamie, you did some reporting at late last year that actually bared some of that out.
Jamie Hale: [00:02:10] Yeah. This is something I’ve been trying to track just kind of throughout 2020 as well. Just in my general reporting, and we kind of saw this, this interesting trend happened where it back in March, everything closed pretty much all outdoor recreation for like a month or two.
And everyone was, you know, stuck at home and trying to do stuff around their house and, you know, running around the neighborhood. And then things slowly started to reopen. And by the time they did everything just exploded. There were people pretty much everywhere. Parking lots were full, trails were full, lakes were crowded.
Beaches were crowded. Rivers are crowded. Everywhere you looked, there were just a ton of people. I think there’s a lot of, you know, obviously pent up demand to get out to some of these natural spots. And boy, people took full advantage of that.
Jim Ryan: [00:03:02] Took full advantage of it and also chose for the better , you know, and I’m making assumptions here, but chose for the better, not to go on that far flung travel or use their leisure time to go to a music festival or a sporting event, or, you know, their child’s soccer tournament or whatever it may be. One of the ways that folks could recreate this year was by going to their local beach, going to their local forest, going somewhere, reasonably close to home.
And it did lead to pretty big crowds. Some of the time.
Jamie Hale: [00:03:38] And like you said, Jim, there were a lot of people who may have taken that road trip out, whether it’s their kid’s soccer games or, you know, their regular road trip out across the West, maybe to some national parks and maybe they decided to just stay closer to home.
What we ended up seeing as a result of all of this was a lot more first time hikers, first time campers, first time backpackers. Who are trying out the outdoors in their local area, because they figured, hey, that’s something I can do right now. And when it’s just right in your backyard and you’ve always meaning to try it, hey, why don’t we go ahead and try it right now?
Jim Ryan: [00:04:15] So let’s take Crater Lake, then, for example. Oregon’s only national park. And Jamie you reported last year some record crowds for a couple of months here in July and August, and also some other incidents as you know, the pandemic wore on. And the number of staffers at the national park was pretty significantly cut.
Jamie Hale: [00:04:43] Yeah, Crater Lake has been seeing these increasing crowds pretty much regularly for the last five or six years. This year was really interesting because you had, of course they were closed until, from about March until the early part of June. And after they reopened, they saw people just flood back in. So you had a record number of visitors.
In 2020 in both July and August. And then you just had continual people coming back in, in September, October, November. They just really saw huge crowds pretty much consistently throughout the year. At the same time because of the COVID restrictions, they weren’t able to have as many staffers on hand as they’re used to.
So Crater Lake, the way it works is a lot of the park rangers and people who work there, stay in these sort of dormitory style housing, where they sleep maybe three or four people to a room. And of course, in a pandemic you can only have about two people to a room. So that effectively cut Crater Lake staff in half.
And so you have a short staff and you have record crowds and it led to mayhem. You know, maybe that’s a little bit too strong of a word, but when I talked to the superintendent, Craig Ackerman, what he said is they had just an influx of incidents of people who maybe decided they were going to try to climb down into the caldera.
Jim Ryan: [00:06:06] Don’t do it!
Jamie Hale: [00:06:07] Which you can’t do. It’s extremely dangerous. There were a lot more rescues this year than there ever have been. And he said there were more people who are trying to, for example, take, you know, pool toys into the lake, which you can’t do. It’s a very delicate ecosystem. You don’t want to bring your pool’s, you know chemicals and any of that outside influence into the lake.
So all of their short staffed people were then spending all of their time, just trying to sort of manage these crowds and protect the resources itself. And, you know, your first thought might be like, well, boy, they must have been really upset by that. They must think, you know, more crowds equals, you know, a more difficult time for a place like that.
But Craig said, he’s like, you know what? Yeah, it was a little more difficult. We would have liked to have more staff, but honestly he said, it’s just so nice to have more people out there. And he said, you know, this is a public resource and we’re here to share this with the people. So when more people come out, that’s a good thing for Crater Lake. That’s a good thing for Oregon. And that’s kind of what I’ve, I’ve been hearing from a lot of these public recreation managers around the state. You know, there’s, I think this inclination, when you hear an influx of. Inexperienced hikers or campers or backpackers, you immediately think, oh, no.
In what way are they going to trash the land? In what way are they going to hurt themselves? And a lot of these recreation managers said, you know what? It really wasn’t as bad as you might think. And ultimately it’s a good thing. If more people are getting outside,
Jim Ryan: [00:07:37] And see, that’s the message that I wanted to hear.
The upshot that I wanted to hear at the end of this is like, oh boy, you know, some of these recreation areas are stretched thin right now, Crater Lake being one of the most spectacular sites in the state of Oregon. You know, if I’m choosing my first local trip, bigger road trip to go do, you know, Crater Lake is, is up there.
You know, the top places that anyone would want to visit. But as people, you know, descend on, like you said, a fragile place, a place that’s already quite popular , you know, things are bound to happen. And I guess it leads me to kind of the larger philosophical notion that these outdoor spaces are no more mine and yours -- you know, folks who spend a lot of time outdoors relative to some others and maybe know their way around a little bit -- than they are someone who’s never been hiking, never been backpacking, never seen Crater Lake before. And the Herculean task that it is to manage the land for everybody.
Jamie Hale: [00:08:49] Yeah, this is, we kind of get caught in this notion sometimes, like you said, that those of us who were more experienced, that we somehow have more ownership over it.
I see this a lot play out when people ask me on Instagram, for example, to not tag the location of places I’ve been, and this is sort of a movement that’s, that’s growing on social media for people to hide the location of their, their pretty nature pictures. And you know, this, this may just be sort of a result of my being a person whose job it is to help people locate these places.
But I really feel like we can’t start going around and saying, these places are good for only those who already know about it. Only those who, you know, we think are responsible enough to take care of it. We need to view it as public land, in my opinion. And that means everybody. And if there are new people who don’t know that you shouldn’t leave trash behind. That seems kind of common sense to, to a lot of us, but people don’t necessarily think about that. And we need to just educate them about leave no trace, instead of saying, well, you can’t come here. I’m not going to tell you where it is. This is only for those who have the privilege, knowing about it already.
Jim Ryan: [00:10:00] It’s difficult line to toe and you know, part of your job, a big part of your job is to help people spend their free time, their leisure time, as best as they can. Right. I, that’s a pretty fair breakdown of what a travel and outdoors reporter is supposed to do. And on the other hand, you’re also someone who in your private life.
You know, may enjoy keeping a place a little bit under the radar, a place that maybe you have to go search for a little bit. That’s not going to come up on a list of, you know, the 10 best hikes or the six favorite rivers or whatever it may be. How do you square that? Or is that something that you have to think about when you’re kind of writing about these outdoor spaces?
Jamie Hale: [00:10:47] Yeah. You know, I, I struggled with this early on when I first took this job of like, you know, are there some secret spots that I want to keep to myself? And I think early on, I kind of came in with that approach, but as I went on and as I thought more about this stuff, I’ve really just adopted the mindset that I want to share all of these places.
And obviously we have a lot of really overcrowded places. And so, the more that we share, the more places, the more options we give people, the less crowded all of this becomes, you know, so if I just share all of my favorite places and I have a lot of them, then we can start spreading out these crowds and I can let go of this ownership idea of, oh, this is my secret spot. This is my little slice of paradise. And instead start feeling good about sharing that with people. Now, if I see someone else on my favorite trail, instead of thinking, ah, man, now I don’t have it to myself. I’m trying to start thinking of it more instead of like, oh cool. Now I get to share this experience with this other person out here.
And it’s a little bit of a reframing, but for me, it’s just resulted in so much more joy. Being out there as opposed to sort of like this greedy ownership idea of it. You know, when it comes to writing about these places, I get a lot of responses from people when I write about lesser known spots, especially where there’s a lot of fear and a lot of anger toward me for, you know, revealing these spots, whether or not, you know, I’m actually revealing anything that hasn’t been written about before.
And there’s an assumption, like we said, that that people are going to come in and they’re going to trash the place and it’s going to be ruined now. And it’s all my fault. And I can, I can empathize with that fear and that concern. What I tell people though, is that that rarely actually comes to fruition.
Some of these places that I’ve received that kind of feedback on, I have gone back to since in years after. And I’ve never noticed in any of these places any kind of influx and and visitation and trash, you know, they haven’t been shut down as a result of The Oregonian writing about them.
You know, when we put these places online, I think a lot of us don’t really think about the fact that the vast majority of people are living vicariously through my photos or my writing or what you’re putting on Instagram. A very slim majority might, you know, take note, maybe write it down, pin it in for future visit, and even smaller slice might actually go out and visit.
So even if you get 10,000 likes on your picture on Instagram , maybe only 50 people will consider going out there and maybe only a dozen actually will, you know? So just because people are excited about it online that doesn’t necessarily translate to high visitation at the place itself.
Jim Ryan: [00:13:39] Sure. I mean, I think that’s a super valid point, and I appreciate you unpacking that, you know, as someone who straddles the line, you know, I do this podcast, I do some level of travel writing. I obviously make videos about the outdoors, which, you know, falls into the same category as kind of your trip reports and whatnot.
But a lot of my travel is as quote unquote, a private person, someone who’s not there for work and, you know, I do have a little bit of that “aw, man” feeling when you show up and the trailhead is overflowing with people, right? Especially this year, when we’re out there looking to not interact with a bunch of other folks, right?
That’s part of the name of the game at the moment. It’s tough to square. I don’t know with geo-tagging and stuff on Instagram, I’ll oftentimes just say Oregon, Washington, you know, for a place that’s very easily recognizable, such as Mount Hood. I’ll toss that tag on there or whatever, you know, there’s no one correct way to do it, but I guess to raise ourselves out of the little rabbit hole I put us in here , more people than ever presumably are getting out and are visiting these places, regardless of what’s put on the internet.
And you know, a lot of that is driven, presumably, because of the pandemic and kind of the edict of, you know, don’t go on that big vacation. Don’t go gather in a big group in the city. One way to enjoy yourself is to get outdoors and. I guess my takeaway from all of that is Jamie that instead of discouraging people from going to our favorite places from going to, you know, spots that are clearly heralded as beautiful outdoor destinations, to try to welcome those folks, to these places, share these places with those people and impart on them those leave no trace principles, how to be good stewards of the land or of the landscape and ensure that those landscapes are left in such a way where future generations can come back to them and not be dismayed at kind of, Oh my gosh. You know, man, they just started trampling the place.
Jamie Hale: [00:15:50] Yeah, I think that’s a really good approach, Jim. I think, you know, for those of us who are a bit more experienced hikers in this area, there requires a little bit of grace. You know, we need to accept and invite these people in. And maybe that’s a matter of recommending some of these first time hikers, some of the, you know easier hikes with really nice views, some of these places in the Gorge that are a little bit more accessible for those, those beginning hikers gracefully sort of bow out and allow them to experience that and then find other places for ourselves. Not just the spots that we always want to go to, because if we want to escape the crowds, honestly, it’s not that hard to do.
If you want to go to a busy place, you can do it on a weekday , Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday or, you know, like you’ve talked about before a little bit later in the day, when you have more daylight, the summertime, maybe first thing in the morning. And there’s so many of these smaller, lesser known trails, especially out in some of the wilderness areas that more experienced hikers can find and absolutely disappear and be the only person out there. There’s so many spots like that all over the place. And if you’re just a little bit savvy, you can find those.
So like I said, I think allowing ourselves a little bit of grace and, you know, inviting some of these, these new hikers into our favorite spots that we’ve been hiking and then finding some new spots for ourselves that goes a long way towards sort of that turning your mind frame to invitation and a joy of sharing these spacesand spreading out the crowds by ourselves, going to some different places that we haven’t been to before.
Jim Ryan: [00:17:27] Yeah, Angel’s Rest, 10 a.m., beautiful sunny Saturday, not the place I’m going to be. I just have to say, and I’m not going to be there. There would have to be an extenuating circumstance of some sort that would put me at Angel’s Rest at 10 a.m. On a Saturday, which sounds like an outrageous thing to say, but it’s just true, you know?
You’re going to go find somewhere else and in doing so, I find the joy of experiencing someplace new, even if it’s less grand? OK. You know, I’m still getting out to see someplace different. And that’s one of the things I appreciate most about being in nature is experiencing new landscapes. You know, while Angel’s Rest may be one of the grandest hikes in the Gorge.
I bet you, we can track down another few that are gonna, you know, maybe not offer the same sweeping viewpoint, but give me a similar sense of awe and enjoyment in nature.
So all that said, I want to talk a little bit more about. Bigger crowds at Oregon outdoor areas during the pandemic and other related topics, right after a short break.
All right, folks, we are back talking about bigger crowds at Oregon’s outdoor recreation areas, of course, during the COVID-19 pandemic. And one thing we haven’t discussed is the perspective of folks who are heading out there, you know, camping, hiking, backpacking, whatever it may be. For the first time. And Jamie, you recently did some reporting about this, and you shared with me some information about an interview you did with someone who has had the best time getting into camping for the first time over the past year.
Jamie Hale: [00:19:15] Yeah, I I’d put out this call on, on Twitter, looking for people who had been hiking or camping for the first time in this past year. And this Portland man reached out to me. His name is Don Brown and he, he told me the story of his getting into camping this year. And I loved it. I loved it. So. Don had said he was like, you know, he’d been camping a couple of times as a kid, but he really describes himself as not a camper at all.
He, you know, doesn’t have a easy time sleeping at night. So he was just like, I’m not about to go sleep on the ground in the cold and the weather, no dice. But this year he, you know, he lives by himself. And I think a lot of people who are, who were living in by themselves during this pandemic, it’s really hard. And you feel really claustrophobic in your space.
So he said, you know what? I just want to go out. I want to get a tent. I want to go out camping on the coast and just, you know, work remotely, basically from a campsite. He got one with an RV hookup. It’s got the electrical outlets, so he could just, you know, set up his work and do everything there.
And he decided to go out at the end of September, out to Cape Lookout on the coast. And Jim. I’m sure. You know what the end of September, the beginning of fall is like out on the Oregon Coast. Sometimes it can be really nice and blue skies, warm temperatures, and sometimes, especially in a wet winter, like this one, it can be a little different out there.
Jim Ryan: [00:20:40] Yeah. You know, you can get lucky, you can get... unlucky. And it sounded like Don, well, you can tell the story.
Jamie Hale: [00:20:51] Don did not get lucky. He said he woke up his first night of camping. First time ever camping as an adult, mind you, after feeling like he was not a camper, he woke up in the middle of the night, he said, in three inches of water, gale force winds blowing his tent around his rain fly had blown off his tent somewhere off into the campground. And he was just staring up at like the pouring sky. And he got up and he ended up spending, I think the rest, like the whole night and the next day in the back of this SUV he had rented to drive out there.
Jim Ryan: [00:21:23] Oh no! It’s not even his SUV, it’s a rented SUV.
Jamie Hale: [00:21:27] No. And I was like, oh man, that must’ve been like, so terrible, because that was like your, your fear, right? And he was like, no, no, I loved it. From then on, I became a camper. That was my thing. And which is an amazing response because Jim, I mean, I’ve been camping in the rain.
Yeah. It’s not fun. I don’t like to do it. I’m not about to go camp outside in a rainstorm. I think a lot of people are kind of in that same boat, experienced campers or not. So for Don to have that experience and say, wow, cool! This is what I’m doing now. I absolutely love that reaction.
Jim Ryan: [00:22:04] Yeah, it’s super rad.
I mean, yeah. I think a lot of folks would be not excited about that experience. They would wake up in the middle of the night and it would be like full scowl, driving home, not stoked about this experience and like I’m super smiling right now because I can just like, feel how excited he must have been being out there and being like, all right, I do this now.
Jamie Hale: [00:22:29] Yeah. Yeah. And he, it wasn’t just that one time. He said after that experience, he went back out to the coast a few weeks later and he went out to camp in Nehelem Bay and he spent a few nights out there. And when we talked, he said he was going to plan to do a trip out for New Year’s Eve, which again, the winter time, the coast, not great! But you know, he’s into it.
And you know, this is, he’s now become like one of the most hardiest campers I have heard about in Oregon, just all of a sudden, and I that’s, I don’t know. That’s like inspirational to me, you know? Usually if I go out and I’m camping in the winter time on the coast, it’s an, a yurt or it’s an, a cabin someplace where I can stay dry and not miserable.
And I see sometimes people out there in tents and I’m like, oh, wow. That must be like the grizzled old Oregonian camper who is got all the right gear and is just out here doing their thing. And now I can see those tents and be like, and that might be people like, like Don who’s just out there loving it in the rain.
Jim Ryan: [00:23:31] Yeah, who got a new tent for Christmas and they’re like, you know, I can’t wait until, you know, clear skies come up. I’m going out there right now. And that’s super cool. So I I’d imagine most folks, right, maybe didn’t jump in as headfirst as Don did. Right. Don seems like a hardcore character. I like him already.
But, you know, we talk and have talked here on the show, a number of times about kind of tips for folks who are going out into the outdoors, maybe into unfamiliar landscapes or doing something for the first time. And, Jamie, maybe starting off with like being a good steward of these areas. What are some things that you would impart on the folks who are saying, you know what, 2021, this is the year?
Jamie Hale: [00:24:19] Yeah. I mean, like we said, Jim, that leave no trace principle, that’s key. You know what? You pack into a hike, pack out with you. That means trash. That means anything that you might be carrying in your backpack. Don’t leave trash in the ground. If you’re going to need to, you know, relieve yourself outside? We have, of course, an episode previously that we can link to about how to poop outside responsibly.
That’s something to know if you’re going to be especially backpacking or if there’s places that aren’t going to have restrooms available. Just knowing those basic principles, I think is the perfect first start.
And that is just going to ensure that the natural place that you’re going to is going to be as safe as it was when you arrived.
Jim Ryan: [00:25:04] Yeah. And I would add to that, too, the biggest thing that you can probably do to help yourself out have a positive experience, is to do your research ahead of time and to show up as prepared as you can be for whatever you’re getting yourself into.
So before you’re going outside, you’re say you’re going on a hike. All right. You’re getting online and you’re doing some research about that hike. You’re seeing maybe some. Trip reports of folks who have been out there recently, you know, what have they experienced on the trail? And mind you, I’m doing this just by Googling “Angel’s Rest trail.”
OK. The first number of things that pop up, or maybe Oregon Hikers, which is a website that has lots of good information about hiking trails, maybe it’s a dot-gov website that has official information about that trail. Maybe a, a service called AllTrails, which is I don’t know exactly how you would describe it, Jamie, but a website that’s a repository for all sorts of different hikes and user reviews or hiker reviews of what they experienced when they were out there.
You know, all that information is very readily available and you can access it on your phone, on your computer before you even leave home. It’s making sure you have the permits or parking passes, which can be a little bit of a labyrinth sometimes depending on who owns the land that you were going out to recreate on.
And it’s making sure you bring the right things with you. So when you’re out there, you’re going to be able to have a positive experience if, say, it starts to drizzle, or the temperature drops, or you’re out a little bit longer than you anticipated and you’re getting kind of hungry and wish you would have packed an extra snack or two.
So going out with the right frame of mind and also the preparation knowing what you’re getting yourself into is really important.
Jamie Hale: [00:26:50] Yeah, Jim, I think you hit the nail on the head there. Those things you need to carry with you, just the essentials, you know, you don’t need all the best fanciest gear to go out hiking for the first time.
You need a good pair of shoes, a bag, some water, some food, a first aid kit is especially helpful. You know, having extra layers with you. These are just some of the basic things just to make sure you’re going to be out there prepared for, you know, whatever may come your way. And Jim, I want to emphasize to a resource you pointed out in terms of preparation OregonHikers.org is a fabulous website.
You know, I would like to promote my own work of course, but there, there a website is just full of trip reports of, I mean, basically any trail you could imagine in Oregon, a lot in Washington, and they have really nice detailed, oftentimes up-to-date trip reports. I can not recommend Oregon Hikers enough.
Jim Ryan: [00:27:42] Yeah. That’s a resource that I use regularly when I’m out searching for what I want to do. So you want a six mile hike and you want to do it within an hour of the Portland area. You can go in and, OK, click on the Portland part of the field guide, look for something that’s within six miles long, figure out how close it is to home.
It’s a really easy resource, very detailed. The folks who contribute to that website do really great work. And I would second that recommendation. Jamie before we sign off for today, any last bits of, pearls of wisdom, or ideas for folks who, you know, are going to continue to head outside as 2021 bears on. And of course, heading outside amid a time where lots of others also are getting after it.
Jamie Hale: [00:28:35] Yeah. You know, I think I would just recommend that people enjoy themselves and don’t put too much pressure on themselves to be going outside in a particular way or to do it to do certain things. You know, some people go outside because they think they should.
Because a lot of their friends maybe are hikers. They think, oh, well, I’m going to be a hiker now, too. But you know, really listen to yourself, listen to your body and, and do the things that you enjoy doing. You know, if you don’t like to go backpacking, don’t backpack. If you don’t like mountain biking, don’t, you know, spend all your money on a mountain bike and go do it.
Really just ofind the things that bring you joy outside and do those things and enjoy them. I mean, this is, this is supposed to be recreation for, you know, the good, good benefit of ourselves. And I think going out there with that positive mindset is the way to go.
Jim Ryan: [00:29:24] Absolutely. And I’ll shout out, too, for folks who are interested in a little bit more discussion on these points.
We’ll link back in the show notes to a couple of episodes we did in 2020 about going camping and backpacking for the first time. And those are great resources for folks who are interested in maybe planning some trips of their own here in 2021. But for now, folks, you can watch our videos on The Oregonian’s YouTube channel, follow us on Instagram @peaknorthwest and view all of our travel and outdoors coverage on oregonlive.com/travel. Please leave us a rating or review if you enjoy the show. And if you want to support this podcast and our local journalism, please consider a subscription to OregonLive. You can find details, of course, at oregonlive.com/podsupport. This episode of the show was produced by me, Jim Ryan, alongside Jamie Hale and Elliot Njus.
Jamie Hale: [00:30:21] Stay safe and happy travels everyone. Until next time, we leave you with this 10 seconds of zen.
-- Jim Ryan and Jamie Hale
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